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Thread: Last orders for petrol Ferrari 2035

  1. #11
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    Kyodo is offline Frankenstein's monster - The Ferrari F430 Club Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nosevi View Post
    All true.

    But to my eye the answer is staring them in the face. Go electric where that works but where is doesn't (long journeys away from 'base', aviation etc.) then look at making ICE totally carbon neutral. In fact if necessary you could make it carbon negative and legislate that for every litre of carbon neutral fuel produced x amount of carbon must also be captured and stored. It takes away the problems of having to have a total change in infrastructure which would save billions, plus the carbon footprint involved in the change. It also negates many of the problems associated with electricity storage - what if the sun isn't shining and the wind not blowing? Not a snag if you've stored your energy in liquid hydrocarbon form. All in all, as annoying as it may be to the environmentalist lobby, we don't need to change everything in order to solve this problem, we merely need to work out how to make the current system be carbon neutral. Luckily some very clever people have already done this, we simply need to listen to them.
    Pete, you're talking sense. Sadly sense doesn't come into it. Electric is the obvious way for cities and runabout town cars. A solution for the rest of travel, they're really not interested. The politicians make the rules, not the clever engineers and scientists.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nosevi View Post
    As they have worked out how to make petrol out of the CO2 in the air using renewable energy, all of which is carbon neutral, why is this not part of the solution. An electric vehicle for local commuting which you can charge at home and a ICE vehicle burning totally carbon neutral petrol which takes as much CO2 out of the atmosphere as it puts in for longer journeys (and fun). Seems like the obvious solution in many ways.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1-soaZn4B0&autoplay=0
    That looks like a far better option than streets full of milk floats, though it is directed at aviation and shipping.
    Quote Originally Posted by MalcH View Post
    I'll be about 72 then and doubt I'll give a....
    Actually I will.

    I recall that about 20 years ago the Labour government indirectly decided we should all go to diesel because it creates less CO2, by lowering the tax on lower CO2 emission cars. Changed their tack on that. The same will happen to EV's eventually.
    The Government needs a reason to tax us and the development and 'trend' of electric vehicles is a great excuse. People are brainwashed into believing it will fix everything. We are all aware that once it succeeds ICE there will be a problem they cause and so therefore must be taxed appropriately.

    I don't believe any government really gives a toss about the environment.
    Last edited by MalcH; 06-02-2020 at 01:42 PM.

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    Excellent Harry's Garage video on Youtube which confirms everything I expect of the practicalities of running an EV as a daily, especially if you ever have to cover more than 200 miles in a day. Essentially, works as a city car and you can easily live with a Tesla but the rest of them have varying charging solutions and the network of chargers is woeful.

    Even as a city car proposition, a new electric Peugeot 208 is 33k. Circa 10k more than an ICE equivalent. By my calculation you'd have to own the car for 8 years to break even at 10k miles per year.

    It's the lack of any kind of joined up and sensible thinking from Government and manufacturers that puts us punters in an invidious position - would like to do my bit to keep the earth inhabitable (for humans) but they don't make it easy.

  4. #14
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    A348W is online now Rear lights like a farm gate - The Ferrari 348 Club Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffekins View Post
    It's the lack of any kind of joined up and sensible thinking from Government and manufacturers that puts us punters in an invidious position - would like to do my bit to keep the earth inhabitable (for humans) but they don't make it easy.
    For your 33k I can get a one year old 5 series and have 9k of change, or enough for around 90,000 miles of driving!

    The government in the usual way has done a short-sighted knee jerk reaction. The consequence of the decision is that manufacturers will be immediately turn the taps of on R&D into Petrol/Diesel and hybrid engines. As in fact will the petroleum companies to a certain extent who were improving the fuels. When the government realises that electric vehicles are not THE silver bullet, are not in fact "zero emissions" and that in fact we need a mix of technologies, including ICE, we will have lost at least 5 years of R&D into ICE. Just look how far we have come in the past 5 years in terms of ICE technology and improvements in emissions reductions and fuel efficiency and therefore what we are going to loose!

    Its interesting talking to the environmentalist I work with, even they recognise this and refuse to buy electric cars due to the environmental impact of them and lack of practicality!

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by MalcH View Post
    That looks like a far better option than streets full of milk floats, though it is directed at aviation and shipping.
    It can really be aimed anywhere as they can make any hydrocarbon fuel you want, petrol, diesel, avgas, just give them the chemical formula and they can make it out of the air. You don't even have to modify a petrol car to run on carbon neutral petrol and so it won't involve scrapping however many hundreds of millions of ICE cars they want to replace. Storing energy as carbon neutral hydrocarbon fuel gets around having to depend heavily on nuclear if your renewables aren't producing enough that day and that gets around having to rely on countries like China to invest in Nuclear power stations here.

    If they started investing in this tech now they wouldn't need to ban all new ICE vehicles in 2035 because ICE vehicles wouldn't be impacting the climate in a negative way. Problem solved with no real change in infrastructure required and no hit on lifestyle. Even flying wouldn't harm the environment. In fact, as you don't need to import your fuel and can make it literally anywhere, it allows any country to be self sufficient in energy rather than relying on places like the Middle East for oil or Russia for gas. That in itself solves several other problems in terms of guarantee of supply.

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    To my mind it all depends on how cheaply they can make the hydrogen .... as i feel this is a case of VHS against Betamax,. As betamax was a far superior system but VHS got the nod from the public.. wheres all the electricity going to cone from ?? Wind farms .. i think not, as what powers industry then.. so we will need nuclear.. gets worse this lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by A348W View Post
    Civil servants! Who couldn't apply common sense and a cohesive thought process together if you gave it to them!

    and

    MPs who are only interested in the latest sound bite and how many clicks they get on social media. And things like developing ICE, tidal, hydrogen etc isn't seen as sexy and therefore wont get them any publicity and therefore is forgotten and largely ignored.

    Just look at the current Transport Minister; he has a background in publishing, and has a diploma in business and finance. So what does he know about transport...probably the sum of sweet F*** all!

    Our Minister in charge of Business, Energy and Industry Strategy is lead by Andrea Leadson. Degree in Political Science and has a background in finance. So what does she know about Energy...probably the sum of sweet F*** all.

    Still, more reasons to put more miles on the Ferrari this year!
    Our system of government is designed to work in a way that ministers are advised by civil servants who are the experts in their fields. This is to ensure that policy has a degree of continuity and isn't as susceptible to the whims of politicians. Its the shady experts in the background that really run things you know. Anyone who is reasonably educated and electable (mouthy and likeable) can do the job of politician, experts are what we rely on really.

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    My question is then...would you prefer the proper sound of an ICE powered by hydrogen.. or would you rather drive a milk float

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yorkshirelad View Post
    My question is then...would you prefer the proper sound of an ICE powered by hydrogen.. or would you rather drive a milk float
    Or an ICE powered by petrol that is carbon neutral. Personally I'd go for this option every time. No that keen on Hydrogen if I can help it.

    Just think, emissions in effect don't matter and neither does mpg - however much CO2 your car puts out, that CO2 came out of the air to begin with anyway. Throw in a small amount of carbon capture for every gallon of petrol produced and by driving your Ferrari you're actually cleaning up the atmosphere and helping the climate. No need to go to V6 turbos, stick with big thirsty V8s and V12s, in fact the bigger and thirstier the better. XR will have to go around in big American muscle cars instead of sitting in a boat in the middle of London

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tackleberry View Post
    But I guess the natural phenomenon of the earth moving closer to the sun, and the real reason the planet is warming up, is too much for the nutters to comprehend.

    You have to ask the question, what if it we were in the part for the cycle that moves us further away from the sun and the planet was entering another Ice Age ?
    David Bellamy suggested this a good while back and it pretty much cost him his TV career....

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